I recently spoke with Dr. Alissa Hochman about the struggle within the American Psychological Association (APA) over a proposal by the Association of Jewish Psychologists—an organization that conflates Jewish identity with Israel—to be accepted as a member of the Ethnic Minority Association of APA. We talked about the larger significance of this organizational conflict as well as historical dynamics shaping the place of Israel in Jewish identity.
Dr. Hochman is a licensed clinical psychologist whose research, teaching, and advocacy center on racial justice, allyship, and equity. She is a core organizer for Psychologists for Justice in Palestine and Jewish Psychologists for Justice, and has presented nationally on solidarity and conversations across race and identity lines.
Jan:
Welcome to KBOO and the Old Mole Variety Hour, Alissa Hochman.
Well, I hope to have that very kind of conversation that’s part of what you do as a collective today and to specifically talk about how some of this work involves the struggle within the American Psychological Association. So before we take up that struggle and some of the dynamics of a campaign and proposals within the organization this year, can you talk about the importance of APA to the mental health field and perhaps to other areas of politics and culture?
Alissa:
Sure, absolutely. I should start by saying, too, that even though I am an organizing member of JPJ, I’m also a member of Psychologists for Justice in Palestine. I’m speaking as myself and sharing my observations and opinions, so not speaking on behalf of the organizations.
But yeah, it’s a fantastic question about the importance of the American Psychological Association. So there’s almost 200,000 members of it. It’s massive.
And the American Psychological Association dictates so many things about what is expected in terms of people going into training who are going to be therapists or mental health professionals or researchers. And it shows up even in people’s lives in ways they don’t realize. Like anytime you’re using APA style in your writing, that is the American Psychological Association.
The Struggle Within the APA
Jan:
So then in setting the stage for this current struggle within APA, you talk about both the Ethnic Minority Association of APA, which has been the site of this conflict where Association of Jewish Psychologists has been claiming a place within the Ethnic Minority Association. Talk a little bit about both of those protagonists on the stage.
Alissa:
Sure. So historically, the Ethnic Psychological Associations or the Ethnic Minority Psychological Associations have been a collection of racialized groups represented within psychology. These include the Association of Black Psychologists, Asian American Psychological Association, the National Latinx Psychological Association, the Society for Indian Psychologists, and most recently, American Arab, Middle Eastern, and North African Society.
They exist as divisions themselves or sometimes even outside of APA, depending on where they kind of situate themselves. But simultaneously, they also have a seat on council, which is essentially our governing body. And so they have a voting right that has grown out of history of marginalization and oppression and discrimination and underrepresentation in the field of psychology.
And so that’s really the purpose of it. Now, the second protagonist you mentioned is the American or the Association of Jewish Psychologists. And essentially, ever since 2023, they have been pushing to have a seat among the EPAs or the Ethnic Minority Association.
Jan:
Have they been around for a while? On the face of it, it seems strange. Jews developed much of the whole field of psychology, certainly psychoanalysis, and have been such important contributors and creators of many of the tools, the theoretical frameworks, the treatment approaches. So yeah, on the face of it, it seemed strange to me to have this organization distinct from all of the ways that Jewish psychologists participate at, including at the senior levels of the APA.
Alissa:
I would totally agree with that. And it’s unfortunate. They are very recent in their formation.
I think they formed in response to 2023. And also, in response to backlash towards Israel, one of the several critiques of them is that they don’t really represent Jewish psychologists and Jewish people writ large. They really represent Jewish people who are also Zionist, who support Israel, and who see that as intrinsically tied to being Jewish, and therefore, really center support of Israel.
And so that’s part where that timing comes from.
Jan:
So tell us what happened. In August, there’s an annual convention of APA. They’re very, very big events.
And then there are various proposals to be voted on by divisions, but also by the overall association. Tell us about this proposal to include the Association of Jewish Psychologists as a member of the Ethnic Minority Association. How did that go forward?
And how did you respond to that, you and other colleagues with Jewish Psychologists for Justice?
Alissa:
They did submit legislation to become part of the EPAs. Simultaneously, though, an important piece of context is that now the US House is investigating APA for antisemitism. These things are intrinsically related. Just having myself seen internal issues showing up in places like the New York Post or the Brandeis Center writing about them, it’s hard to imagine that this investigation wasn’t brought on by people who are very unsatisfied with APA not doing more to censor people speaking up about Israel and Palestine.
Those people are pretty bold about it. They write about it explicitly online. It can be found.
They’ll name people explicitly who they have issues with. And so it puts APA in this really precarious position where they’re being accused of antisemitism. The call from the House requested all emails that include the terms antisemitism, Israel, and Palestine.
So again, not necessarily focusing on antisemitism as Jews being discriminated against as Jews, but really that conflation, that speaking against Israel, saying that Palestinians are experiencing a genocide and trying to stop that genocide is somehow antisemitic. And so the first vote actually came up in February, and it was pushed because how can you vote on this issue while you’re under investigation in good faith? And then it was pushed again.
And then it came up in August again. And my understanding is that essentially there’s going to be a working group to understand how best to represent Jewish psychologists.
Jan:
The Jewish Psychologist for Justice argues, as I think Jewish Voice for Peace and many other groups do, that the very conflation of Jewish identity and support for Zionism or Israel is itself antisemitic. Can you say a little about that?
Alissa:
Absolutely. And it’s interesting because those of us who are speaking up against that conflation are being accused of self-hating Jews with an internalized antisemitism being called slurs that call us traitors. And in reality, Zionism itself at its foundation was seen as antisemitic by some Jewish organizations, the idea that all Jewish people should go claim land and move somewhere else.
So this isn’t new. There have always been Jewish people in strong opposition to the Zionist movement. And when it landed on claiming Palestine as its location soon after its beginning, a lot of predicting and naming the harm that that would bring both to the Palestinian people and to Jews at large for the conflict that that would create and the harm it would do.
Jan:
There’s often a kind of equivalency established that I think is very problematic between instances of antisemitism in the Justice for Palestine movement or more broadly in the left, versus antisemitism as a more organized ideology on the right. How do you understand the different expressions of contemporary antisemitism?
Alissa:
What’s interesting for me is like, I have not personally experienced any antisemitism coming from the left. I’m sure it happens. And I know that there are going to be people who make these glossing overreaches, holding all Jewish people responsible for Israel, or some of the stereotypes or tropes, exactly.
And that’s complicated by the fact that there are Jewish people and Israel itself saying that this is for all Jewish people. So I don’t know how to reconcile that. I find that very different than the more classic antisemitism that is absolutely on the rise, but all these things are interrelated like these narratives of a genocide being committed so that Jewish people can be safe.
That doesn’t actually make us safer.
The Shattering of Ideals
Jan:
Okay, so what about your own process? Part of the contribution of psychoanalysis is in taking up the complexity and the ambivalences in human attachments, we become attached to people, but objects, places, and Israel’s kind of a super symbolic object. And in broader global awareness, Palestine and certainly Gaza.
What has been your experience growing up in under Zionism and your own attachment to Israel and how you’ve kind of worked through that and understand that in these conversations we talked about at the beginning? How do you have conversations with people who are struggling with their attachments to Israel as both a place and a kind of a fantasy object, an idealized object?
Alissa:
Absolutely. I’ve done a lot of reflecting on this, especially my own journey to sort of unlearn Zionism really began more in 2014, 2015. I feel like 2023 was a huge turning point for a lot of people.
And it certainly shifted more things for me and helped more unlearning. But, I grew up in a reform synagogue, I was taught how important social justice is, it’s how I’ve generally attributed like the values that I have that have led me to the career I have, but simultaneously was taught to love Israel in just a very kind of passive, subverted way, right? Like we were learning the national anthem and just hearing about people going on trips to Israel.
And it was just in the air that that is a part of being Jewish. It's a complicated story but there was some conflict in my family about how I, whether I’d be raised Jewish or not. And I think that played a role in me choosing to go to Brandeis as my undergrad, also because it purports to be a social justice university.
And when I was there, I went on birthright and I absolutely fell in love with Israel.
Jan:
Can you just say a bit for people who aren’t familiar with the birthright programs, explain that a bit.
Alissa:
I mean, wow, it’s a free 10-day trip to Israel and you party and learn all about the amazing history of it. You meet people your age who are in the military in Israel, but you’re eating the food, drinking, dancing, and simultaneously, I wish I was more of a critical thinker and more emboldened to challenge authority, but there were very strange moments, right? One example is if you meet your significant other on the trip, you get a honeymoon to Israel.
But also sitting us down in a room and explaining that the UN is antisemitic because they spent 50 pages on Israeli human rights violations and only four or five on Darfur at the time. And I remember thinking, how are there 50 pages to write about? But I didn’t really push it farther than that.
The other piece that I think they did that was really powerful, two pieces. One is saying that this is your home and because you’re Jewish, no matter what is happening, if you’re ever in trouble, if you ever need something, you can always come here. And that, for me in particular, was huge at that time.
I didn’t really have a home to go back to, so I felt cared for. And I think the other piece that’s really important, I think that was my own stuff that got played on, but they also do such a powerful playing on intergenerational trauma of Jewish people. I’ve been to Holocaust museums and I had been to them throughout my life growing up.
None of them were like the Holocaust Museum in Israel. Of course, they’re always devastating to go to and eye-opening and painful, but this was on another level. People were hysterically crying.
A few people in my birthright group vomited while they were there because it was so graphic and so upsetting.
Jan:
You mean graphic in terms of what happened during the Holocaust of people being exterminated?
Alissa:
Yeah. They had a pile of shoes of people who had been, I think, killed in the gas chamber or something. Just so intense.
And you walk through that museum and when you get to the very end of it, it’s this massive open air window with an arch that is just looking out over Israel. It’s like you walked this path of hell and trauma and look what we got in the end and look at our freedom and our safety now. I don’t think that can be discounted either, just how that hits you.
Jan:
How do you try to have those conversations with people who are struggling with an attachment to Israel? And how do you draw on your own experience, perhaps, to try to come to terms with that and I guess the feelings of loss and grief? We can be attached to fantasy objects as much as things in the world that have some material basis to them.
Alissa:
Yeah. I just try to hold empathy and understanding and as frustrating and concerning and disappointing it is to see people dug into Zionism and unwilling to see the reality of what’s happening. I understand it in some ways or at least the way I understand it helps me tolerate it because I can’t believe that if you really accepted the reality of what’s happening that you would keep that stance, especially as someone in the field that’s supposed to care about the well-being of other people.
But this is a shattering of a reality that you hold that is so painful. I’ve been through a lot of different things in my life. Nothing has felt as much of a betrayal as when I realized what Israel was doing to Palestinians in 2014, 2015 and the ways that it reminded me of the Holocaust.
You could have just swapped out Palestinian for Jew and it would have been the same story. And the realization that I was simultaneously taught to value social justice and I was taught to value this country that is actually doing the exact things we were taught to stand up against and stop and make sure never happen again. It’s a disillusionment and a betrayal and a rage that I really can’t put words to appropriately.
So I understand in some ways the struggle with that. You have to reconcile. One of the most horrific things you could reconcile.
So much of Jewish identity for better or worse is tied up in the Holocaust. And then to recognize that this country that’s supposed to represent you is actually doing the same horrors is so painful. So I try to hold that.
I try to make space for it. I try to make space for the pain of it. But I think even more so there’s a lot of people who aren’t Jewish who are very confused by the infighting.
And so trying to clarify that as well. It does seem like a lot of people have made decisions about where they land. We’re in a very polarized time.
So I don’t get as much conversations with people who are maybe questioning. But when I am in those spaces, I did have an opportunity to speak with some psychologists and it did seem like some were questioning. And so again, just being my authentic raw self about how painful this is and even how painful it is that it’s risky and controversial to be talking right now, even just on this radio show or to that group of psychologists that have people who are Zionist who have attacked other psychologists and other graduate students for speaking out about Palestine.
It shouldn’t be controversial to talk about trying to stop genocide.
Holding Space for Discomfort
Jan:
And I think just continuing with that thought in closing, I think both as psychologists and teachers, we base much of our work on helping people hold and be able to understand conflict and discomfort.
Alissa:
I will say I feel very protective, though, of my colleagues who are impacted, who are Palestinian or SWANA (Southwest Asian and North African) or people of color that are watching this play out. There’s a level of protectiveness and frustration that we’re having this debate when people are being murdered and starved. And that is a privilege that we have to be able to kind of have this back and forth around this comfort.
Yes, around discomfort, around what all of this means, around trying to disentangle the conflation and helping people see that discomfort and fear are not the same thing as actually being unsafe. And so I think that is really the challenge, right?
Just because you've been told that these things are unsafe, like a keffiyeh or support for Palestine, that doesn’t mean that they are. That is something we were taught. That is something we were indoctrinated into.
We have been taught to—we meaning Jews and especially the majority of Jews who grew up exposed to Zionism—were taught to dehumanize Palestinians. And we need to rectify that and recognize that their safety is part of our safety and our discomfort or our fear around what that will look like doesn’t make it real and doesn’t give us a blank slate to do whatever we want with however we feel in any space. Like I do think we should be having these conversations among ourselves and not out in the open with people who are harmed by it.
Jan:
I hope to continue conversations with you and that you’ll join us again on the Old Mole Variety Hour. So much appreciate your work through the Jewish Psychologist for Justice and for sharing your own personal experience.
Thank you. This is Jan Haaken talking today with Dr. Alissa Hochman on the Old Mole Variety Hour.
Alissa:
Thanks so much for having me.
🎞️ Watch the Film
The Palestine Exception explores the largest anti-war movement since the 1970s as students, faculty, and staff demand divestment from companies doing business with Israel. The documentary features diverse academics confronting the historical censorship of criticisms of Israel and Zionism.
💬 Share Your Thoughts
What role should psychologists play in addressing political conflict, human rights, and the experiences of people who are being harmed? How do we reconcile deeply held beliefs about identity, history, and justice when confronted with painful new realities?
If one views the role of a psychologist as one who assists another in gaining deeper insights into their lived experience with the assumption that this will lighten the psychological burdens one carries. Burdens that limit our perspectives. Unexamiined beliefs, assumptions that often limit our thinking, perspective, capacities, our abilities, our lives. If this in any way begins to define the role of psychology and psychologists, in helping all of us to more fully understand Zionism and the Jewish experience, we might think of this as one of the paths to not only a deeper understanding, but also to a global society literally unable to participate in any way in any form of cruelty.
In pondering Zionism, the Jewish experience over centuries and generations of being belitteled, marginalized, it seems to me to be obvious that the response would be to excel. To excel in creating wealth, excel in scholarship, excel in the arts. To develop a culture that not only values these, but inculcates in its children the necessity to excel. I must wonder, if this is the case, would it not lead to a sense of superiority? After all, your people have produced so many who have excelled. Does this not lead to a sense of 'exceptionalism'?
I think it worth examining the psychological factors that enable some of the Jewish faith to ignore or justify